Posts by The Leological One

39

Help me prove to my bf that defellowshipping happens

by MM090503 in

hi all.. many of you have probably seen my posts on here before, but if you haven't let me reinterate my story in short for you.. i am currently dating a wonderful guy, but the problem is he has been considering becoming a jw.

he has studdied with them for about a year.

because of me has agreed to do some religion searching and figure out what he really believes.

The Leological One

love11,

Thanks for replying to my thread~! Your story is pretty sad and, unfortunately, seems to mirror so many others in some general ways. I'm sorry you're not able to talk to your mother. My wife told me that because of her emotional disability that her mother told her she'd talk to her even if she got DF'd someday, but then after hearing she would be DF'd told her she wouldn't talk to her anymore or ever meet me. Her brother at least will deal with her indirectly through me (I hope that's still the case!).

I can't blame you for your point of view at all. I'm a Christian, myself, but just totally feel the organization goes well beyond the bounds of the Bible and warps the Bible to fit whatever leaders are in control at a particular moment's wills. I'm glad to hear you have what sounds like a great family situation within your own immediate family and wish the best for you and your family (including the ones still trapped).

Leonard

The cruelty of this organization will not be felt and will not be noticed until you disagree. They truely are wolves in sheeps clothing to the imperfect person. I strongely recommend to all who are thinking of being a jw or who are studing to be a jw to find love and a since of community within yourself and don't go looking for it here. To the mentally ill who are thinking of joining this organization it will offer you a since of control and well being. Even if it is a false since, it may work for you. However, expect to have to give up family or friends at some point in your life. They will tell you no that they encourage a good family life and that they only kick people out that are evil. THAT IS NOT TRUE. They will kick you out too for any imperfection.
Life has not been the same for me. I have not spoken to my mother in 7 years because she told me "If you're not going to be in the paradise than I might as well get used to it now". She has not met my son who is 5 years old now. And the only friend I have is the ex-jw friend I told you about that slept with her boyfriend who later became her husband. The accident happened when I was 19 years old and I have since learned to walk again. I have 2 children and a wonderful husband that helped me when I was crippled and when no one else would love me. He was raised a catholic but doesn't do anything religous anymore besides spend time with his family. One last word of advice. Beware of anyone saying that they and only they are Gods chosen people. All things in this universe come from the smallest most minute thing- a cell.

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Love11,

Thanks so much for your great post~! I appreciate you sharing all that and can say I feel that's exactly what my wife's been going through, though she's also had some anger at how her DF'ing occurred (the discussion with the elders). I haven't had the chance to read your story yet (and will after I finish this response ), but I have the feeling you, my wife, and so many other JW's/ex-JW's have felt the same type of pain and loneliness as well as feeling so negative about each person's self. I hate to see how that's occurred and to so many people out there, and I hope you, my wife, and so many of the others that've been hurt find a full peacefulness and will fully be healed of the damages that have been inflicted over long periods of time.

Thanks again,

Leonard

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Thanks again Heathen for this post~!

I wish she would have been in the mood to celebrate her DF'ing (BTW, she saw a thread about the apostafest and thought the name was really cool!), but maybe someday she'll feel a lot better about herself outside the org, and I'm hoping that somehow or other she'll eventually be able to talk to her family again. I like your take on the 144k (and need to read some of the longer replies and links still, too!).

Thanks again,

Leonard

If we knew where you lived we would have an apostafest in your town and celebrate the DFing . LOL Maybe cheer her up a little . It's always better to know you aren't alone .
I think it depends on how you look at what the bible is saying . The kingdom of the heavens is simply the city of new jerusalem that lands on earth during the great tribulation . The WTBTS just does not get the picture at all , even tho they wrote about it in the climax book they went ahead and trashed it like it wasn't real, when it is . The 144k are chosen to be co rulers with christ for a thousand years but the great crowd is allowed to enter the city and worship thus they are portrayed as being in heaven . The 144k are also portrayed as being killed prior to the millenial reign for bearing witness to jesus but the great crowd will walk out of this world and into the kingdom without dying and partake in the marriage feast of the lamb . Now that's my story and I'm sticking to it .........

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Thanks Heathen~! At the Guitarmaggedon, we were allowed to choose one backing track out of 18, with styles of blues, rock, gospel, punk, metal, etc... I kinda' chose a metal-ish style track that was fun to play to, but basically we just shred all over the tracks whatever we could come up with~!

Oh, yeah; I agree with you regarding the WT, though I can appreciate some of the morals it encourages; I would say I appreciate all the morals, but then so many people here and my wife have experienced the caste system, as it were, and a general lack of empathy that I'm not sure I could or would blame on the people individually so much as on the way the organization seems to promote the cliques/popularity.

My wife got DF'd for hooking up with me before we got married, though we got married about a couple weeks at most after her DF'ing, and they knew we were to be married so soon. I hate to see how people can't even talk to their own families anymore and just think that policy is totally ignorant and am even surprised the WT's kept up its membership so well with that policy in place~!

Sorry to hear about the car accident . Guitarmaggedon , sounds pretty cool . What is that like free style stuff , write your own songs or how well you do copy stuff?
I would rest assured that the WTBTS is f'd up from top to bottom . You never did mention what the wife got the big DF over to begin with .

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Thanks again Cygnus, Adelmaal, and Narkissos! I just got home from a guitar competition (called Guitarmageddon, oddly enough~! ) ; unfortunately I didn't get to advance and got in a wreck on the way there today and so haven't had time to look at your responses more fully, but I really appreciate the responses and the info that's been looked up~! I can't wait 'til I have more time the next couple days to look over this thread again and some of the links provided~!

Thanks again all,

Leonard

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Thanks to all who've replied to the thread and also for those last couple of good-sized, info-filled posts by Jaffacake and Adelmaal as well as to MAHABA and Narkissos for sharing their views~!

Leonard

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

MAHABA,

Thanks for your post. I don't have enough time to research your point at the moment, but I feel certain verses help identify that people are supposed to be "born again" to even see the kingdom of heaven:

"Unless you are born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3,5,7).

From my understanding, the WT view is that only the 144,000 witnesses can be/are born again. If that's true, then how does that jive with the above verse (maybe a different translation?)?

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

That's great! It is a good thread and there have been more postings to it even today I believe.
I hear you on her not wanting to read a book "apostate literature". I also still believe the Witnesses had "the truth" even when I was df'd and also after I eventually left on my own accord. It took time for me to consider the fact that they might be wrong... You are doing a great job supporting your wife and I can tell you care about her well being very much.
Hang in there and coming to this site will I'm sure be of great help to you.

Yes; she seems to be in exactly the same place/mindset you were in. Thanks again Adelmaal!

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Pennycandy,

Thanks for the info~! I just read that from a link at freeminds.org just before coming back to look at the thread~!

http://www.xjw.com/where.html
Where is the Great Crowd Serving God? Very helpful article.

[edit:] Actually, I think that may be a different site going over the same topic I'd read. Thanks again!

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Narkissos,

Thanks for the post:

Simply reading the NT would do it.
First, the burden of proof is the JWs' as no single text explicitly says that.
Second, there is massive evidence that no segment of early Christianity believed in "two hopes". Cf. Ephesians 4:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.
Third, all the texts JWs use to this end are quoted out of context.
(1) On Luke 12:32 see Peacefulpete's thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/86875/1.ashx
(2) John 10:16 clearly speaks of people from two distinct origins (i.e. Jews and Gentiles) gathered into "one flock" -- not the other way around.
(3) the 144,000 of Revelation 7; 14 are clearly a symbolical number as the 12 tribes of 12,000 they are made of (7:4ff); see the equally symbolical use of the figures 12 and 144 in chapter 21 (v. 17).
In sum: there is nothing to back up the JW teaching which was made up by Rutherford to secure control on the increasing number of people related to the WT in the 30's. Making them "second-class believers," dependent on a "first-class" "represented" by the WT was the trick. Simple really.

I totally agree and will look into Peacefulpete's thread, too! That's too bad so many people have believed that they can only at best be some sort of second-class believer.